Yoko Ono

Привет. Хотелось бы услышать мнения такого большого количества битломанов по поводу Ono.
Я имею введу не толко ее "вклад" в творчество Битлов , но и ее собственную музыку и художества .
Как бы ее не ругали , но я думаю Ono толантлевый авангардист. Видел я одну штуку в Иерусалиме подписаную ею. Описать не возможно , но впичетляет.
Hipnik.

Привет !

Это довольно старая тема, мы раньше это обсуждали, когда форум размещался на Talk.ru.
Посмотрим какие результаты будут сейчас здесь.

Мне нравятся ее работы, у меня есть все ее диски, я с нетерпением жду выхода нового, но
я кактегорически против феминизма !

LL

Я не могу сказать, что действительно верю в талант Йоко, т.к. считаю ее великой авнтюристкой, способной эпатировать общественность как никто другой. А вот на счет продвинутого феминизма, Lemon, ты прав.
:-)

Кстати, не знаю, как вам, а мне стало интересно, а вообще Йоко с Джорджем выступали ли когда-нибудь в одном концерте вместе? Вот, пожалуй, единственный такой концерт в истории (поправьте меня, знатоки)-

"Peace For Christmas" - An UNICEF Concert,
Jonh & Yoko / Plastic Ono Band with Star Studded Cast of Thousands

DATE
Media/Place Sound Source
December 15,1969(Mon)
Peace For Christmas Live,Lyceum Ballroom,Wellington St,London, England


MEMBERS
Jonh Lennon & Yoko Ono
Plastic Ono Band
Eric Clapton
Klaus Voormann
Alan White
Star Studded Cast of Thousands
Bobby Keys
Billy Preston
Keith Moon
Jim Gordon
Delaney Bramlett
Bonnie Bramlett
George Harrison


SET LISTS
Cold Turkey
Don't Worry Kyoko

Не понимаю. А ее вокалы в Double Fantasy пролистываю с чистой совестью

https://www.beatles.ru/postman/forum_messages.asp?cfrom=1&msg_id=3250&cpage=6&forum_id=1
Тут была бурная дискуссия про Йоко. Давайте ее и продолжим тут.

Я открою эту тему, из-за того, чтобы БОЛЬШЕ НА ФОРУМЕ НЕ БУДЕТ ТУПОСТИ типа:
в журнале Эплоко - "она не любила его. Но он был нужен ей. Он не любил ее - но не мог жить без нее. Он все время хотел быть рядом. Из-за нее его группа развалилась-любовь слепа.
....
Он был кроликом, а она - удавом".

Margo Lennon

Хочу Всем напомнить, что у нас не эфир Битловского часа на Эхо Москвы. Если кто-то хочет кого-то оскорблять, то это лишь пока, пока КТО-ТО НЕ ПОДАСТ НА ОСКОРБЛЕНИЯ В СУД ! Вот и все !

... а то можно "загреметь" по правилу:
4.4. Гpубые, нецензурные выpажения и оскоpбления в любой фоpме - сообщения, грубые по тону, содержащие "наезды" на личности, а также музыкальные или личные пристрастия участников Клуба.

Срок удаления от форума - я могу установить персонально.

LL

Yoko Ono кому то нравится кому то нет, это понятно. Я хочу отметить ее следующие альбомы:
Yoko Ono/Plastic Ono Band
FLY
Feeling The Shace
Approximately Infinite Universe
Эти альбомы очень даже ничего, оно и понятно их делала команда Джона. Хотя сдругой стороны у нас и Леннона народ не очень активно слушает.

активный и ярый противник ОНО.
в очередной раз описывать то что против нее имею не буду.

НО! то что она делала в музыке вполне могу назвать творчеством. причем есть немало сильных моментов.

"... Йоко ни разу открыто не выступила против Маккартни. А он неоднократно утверждал, что эта женщина украла у него друга. Благодаря этим выпадам у многих сложился образ расчетливой хищницы, полностью подчинившей себе волю Джона. Говорили, к примеру, что она даже не отпускала Леннона одного в туалет, когда на студии шла запись очередного диска. Хотела всегда держать его при себе.

На самом деле, как много лет спустя рассказывала сама Йоко, не она, а Леннон настаивал, чтобы они вместе шли в тот самый туалет. Он ужасно ее ревновал и боялся, что в те самые несколько минут, пока его не будет рядом, ее уведет кто-нибудь из ливерпульской четверки.
Вопреки общепринятому мнению, всесильной вампиршей эта женщина не была. Ее мучило множество комплексов. Мало кто знает, что на самом деле она считает себя уродливой. Ей казалось, что у нее слишком короткие ноги и безобразное лицо. Именно поэтому она всегда закрывала его волосами.
Леннон стал первым мужчиной в ее жизни, который сказал, что в ее фигуре нет недостатков. А лицо прекрасно.

"Мегаполис – новости", dni.ru

...Я понимаю, наши журналисты переврут что угодно, и все же... Откровения стареющей женщины, которая может теперь говорить все, что угодно про отношения с Джоном, он-то сам не выскажется. Больше всего меня позабавило - он боялся, что ее кто-нибудь уведет. Кому она нужна?! Мне кажется, это Джон отлично понимал: с Полом отношения у Йоко всегда были никакие, и если я не ошибаюсь, остальные двое тоже особой любви к ней не питали.
Везет же Оно! ТАКОЙ человек боялся за ее верность и ТАК ревновал...

Да уж, Mary-Kay, каждой бы по такому...)))

К Йоко всегда относился с уважением. Думаю, не все у них с Джоном было так плохо, как выглядит со стороны. Одна песня Starting Over стоит десятка злобных воспоминаний очевидцев:))). Специально ее творчество не слушал, но ее песни на Double Fantasy совсем не так плохи, как принято считать (Kiss Kiss Kiss и Give me something особенно), а вокал имеет свои прелести, если привыкнуть :))). Don't worry Kyoko с концерта в Торонто вообще отличная вещь (правда, Йоко в этом не виновата :)))).
А вообще, что меня больше всего раздражает в ней - умение портить хорошие песни. Надао сделать значок: "Хочешь испортить рок-н-ролл - спроси Йоко как..." Тот же Торонто - все шло нормально, пока она не вылезла из мешка и не запортила Yer Blues своим пищанием!!! А такая песня была...
И с Френком Заппой - так запоганила мою любимую Baby Please Don't Go, что противно становится. Там даже, кажется, слышно, как Леннон орет ей Shut Up!

Попалась мне тут свежая заметка про Йоко:
http://www.villagevoice.com/issues/0305/spartos.php?&1234
Nobody Sees Her Like You Do
Yoko Motion
by Carla Spartos
January 29 - February 4, 2003

Yoko Ono
"Yang Yang" remixes
69/Mind Train

Yoko Ono is now as old as your grandmother. So why is she still so controversial within the famously tolerant dance community? DJ Danny Tenaglia caught shit for her "Open Your Box" freak-out at his annual Miami Winter Music Conference bash last year. Her imperative to "take off your pants so I can come all over you" didn't please the audience of pilled-out punters and cranky, sleep-deprived critics. That and the shrieking. Lots of shrieking. Did I mention it was 7 a.m.?
Maybe genius needs to be misunderstood. Maybe there are legions of secret Beatles fans working it on dancefloors around the globe with resentment in their hearts. Or, get this, maybe Ono's the one to rebridge punk and dance. Not namby-pamby electro poses but primal screams that sully the pristine South Beach ether. But even avant-tards will unwittingly dig the new "Yang Yang" remixes, the third in a series of superstar-DJ makeovers of her work, this time from Roxy resident DJ Peter Rauhofer and New Jersey production team the Orange Factory. (Ono is to innovative DJ construction as McCartney is to retread 9-11 ballads.) Rauhofer's contributions veer from the breathy, orgasmic breakdowns of the opening Ying mix to the techno-y thud-thud-thud Yang version, which makes prominent use of the cathartic Ono invectives: "I want you. I hate you. I want you. You're making me sick!" (Take that, McCartney!) Where Rauhofer is minimalist, the Orange Factory is funky—their Down & Dirty mix wouldn't sound out of place in a Mitsubishi commercial (minus anything remotely Ono-esque—she's a hard sell, haven't you been reading? See McCartney for product placement), their Pump mix, progressive enough to please Sasha and Diggers fans.

Tenaglia, meanwhile, hasn't shied away from Ono. He played "Walking on Thin Ice" at his recent Be Yourself classics party, explaining to the audience how it was a fave at Larry Levan's Paradise Garage. Then he put on his own version, the next due out in the series, which makes brilliant use of all those Ono "Aye! Aye! Aye! Aye! Aye! Aye! Aye!"s. And the crowd got down.

bk: А может каждому - по такой?

Есть такой анекдот-притча (впрочем, довольно известный):
Один мальчик женился на старушке. А когда он умер, ей досталось все его состояние.

Andrey Malkin: могу добавить. Песня The Luck of The Irish слушается просто замечательно. До тех пор, пока не вступает завывание, которое я когда-то едва не приняла за хор "мальчиков-зайчиков"... (Возникает даже некоторое недоумение: вроде Irish - а тут такое...)
Не могу понять, как журналисты могли упрекать в "порчении" музыкального продукта Линду Маккартни при существовании в природе Йоко Оно??

Что ж...правильно отмечено-"кому-то она нравится,кому-то нет".Tasts differ,as English think.я против Yoko не имею ничего дурного.А насчёт Пола я думаю,что это была ревность.Но я также уверена,что не Оно "развалила" группу.Просто к тому времени Джон слишком устал...параноя..."I'm so tired"...
Srtange. GALA

Mary-Key - я думаю, и то, и другое - не сахар...
А анекдот (известный) был:
"Как же, как же, и вас, Надежда Константиновна, и мужа вашего - Крупского, хорошо помню..."

Нашла вот январское интервью Йоко:
By Laura Waskin
The Desert Sun
January 15th, 2003
With or without The Beatles, John Lennon was a powerful and creative force to be reckoned with. More than 20 years after his tragic death in December, 1980, Lennon continues to inspire and bridge the gap between generations with his timeless music, art and a message of world peace.

In a phone interview with The Desert Sun, Lennon's widow, conceptual artist and musician Yoko Ono, talks about her husband's work and other aspects of the couple's life together.

Q: I understand the exhibit is a collection of free drawing, caricature and illustrations. I was wondering if John had a favorite media to work in, or subject matter?

YOKO:Well, he was very, very interested and very quick in just drawing things you know with pencil, or ink, pen and ink, or Oriental brush.

Q:Yes, he mastered the Oriental line drawing, didn't he? That's wonderful. Are there any artists that he was inspired by?

YOKO:Well, I don't know. But you know, I mean he did do some very interesting drawings when he was very young. He did seem very much like George Gross kind of thing. But I don't think that he knew what George Gross was doing. I mean, John had his own thing you know. And what he did on his own was very unique and interesting.

Q: I know that starting in the late '60s, you and John had numerous showings of art works, including, of course, the Bag One pieces. Then a little later on, he was - publicly anyway - concentrating more on recording -although at home he continued to create art. Had John ever talked about perhaps mounting his own or a joint art exhibition with you for the future?

YOKO:It would have been so nice, but both of us were so ostracized, separately and together, so there was no chance. I mean can you imagine in those days, if we did a show of John's artwork and Yoko's artwork, they'd be throwing stones at the gallery.

Q:I did read actually that he tried to get some art shows, and the galleries were snubbing him.

YOKO:I know...

Q:And I just found that so hard to believe - like what was it, just stick to your rock and roll?

YOKO:Yeah. But can you imagine, you know, how people felt that...oh, that's would just be like a pop star gathering. I think that even now many people think that way. But there are enough people who really understand his work and are inspired by his work.

Q:Just an interesting footnote is that Paul McCartney has also recently had some limited showings of his own artwork. So I was wondering - speaking as an artist yourself - if you've seen any of Paul's paintings, and if so, formed any impressions about them at all?

YOKO:Well, I did see a few of them, and you know, I think that anybody who's trying to do anything in the peace industry that I see...I praise them, and like to encourage them and it's great that he's doing it.

Q:Are there perhaps some timeless messages in John's artwork that we can apply to today's world and peace?

YOKO:Well, John was a genius, and he was drawing like that when he was nine years old, you know. So it's a totally different class of things. I mean, I can't even do... I can't draw like John draws, or like John did draw. And so you know he was just a one and only kind of person.

Q:Although as a musician, you're a classically trained pianist yourself, right?

YOKO:Yes, classically trained, but cannot be expected...! (Laughs)

Q:Is your son Sean an artist, too? Does he also like to paint and draw?

YOKO:Yes, he's incredible doing that. I mean, there's no way of describing it, but it's just that he's so unusual, very different from John and from me. He does his own thing.

Q:He's his own man.

YOKO:Yes.

Q:Now along with an obviously very brutal honesty, you see a lot of humor and whimsy in John's work, like maybe "don't take things too seriously." Did that reflect in his everyday life also?

YOKO:Mostly. Though of course, he was a very serious person, too, but I think there is a just certain balance of that and being versatile as well. John was just totally versatile and was not a shallow person. He was very deep as well. And deep, but also you know, a little bit tongue and cheek you know. But he was so sweet, and there was something about his art, that was so nice about it.

Q:It's just relaxing to look at it, it puts you in a good mood.

YOKO:Exactly.

Q:I understand John was recently named as one of the ten greatest Britains ever by the BBC, which is very establishment. How do think John would feel about that? How do you feel about that?

YOKO:Well, I mean you know, even in 1969 he was elected in Britain as Man of the Year or something. It was always like that. He was always getting a lot of respect from the British, you know. So I'm not surprised.

Q:You did live in England for a long time, and so I was wondering if there was anything you -or John - have particularly missed about it? Things like popping down to the corner shop for something you can't get over here, or certain cultural aspects that are different?

YOKO:Well, in my case, yes, of course I have missed that, too. But it's tainted in a way because it's kind of covered with my memories with John, you know. So I always feel like, oh well, that's done with it, that kind of thing. It ruined the situation.

Q:It must give you a lot of satisfaction now that your own art and music has gotten so much critical acclaim, like "Rising," and "Blueprint for a Sunrise" and the "Open Your Box" remix was a dance hit last year.

YOKO:Yes, I do have some people who like to listen to my music. I'm very lucky that way.

Q:And you've just had your own art exhibition, your first American retrospective that's been touring called "Yes Yoko Ono." I was wondering what that felt like? It must have been really interesting seeing the audience participation works now, because they're museum pieces, right?

YOKO:I know! Well I'm very surprised that it did happen. I mean, I was just giving up on it...you know, forget it. But, yes, it took like, what is this 30, 40 years, you know before the art was finally recognized. So that's interesting in itself really.

Q:There are so many young groups now that have been inspired by your work, too. What kind of music do you personally enjoy listening to, to relax? Do you have any favorite groups you like, or classical types of music?

YOKO:Uh, right now I don't mind listening to symphonic something. Yeah, it seems like more and more I'm getting into string music. I don't know why. I'm just going back to the old styles.

Q:You always seem so positive in both your work and personal life, and can draw people into that. How does that come about and what do you draw on?

YOKO:Well, I don't know. I think that the reason why I am positive and anything else is because I have no choice. I mean, what are you going to do, just jump out of the window, you know? (Laughs) It's much better to just try and stay bright, you know. And you'll do all right for yourself. When I get very depressed, as I do, too, I just try to do something for somebody. You know, like call somebody and say hi, or write a little note, you know - a personal something. And just try and do something for somebody. But as for work, well, I wouldn't say "new" work, but I started something like ten years ago. It's a work called a talking sculpture. And it's a telephone. And when the telephone is sitting in the museum in my show, I call in, and it's a talking sculpture.

Q:How interesting.

YOKO:People would just, you know, pick up the phone and say hi. And I would say hi and they'd love it because it's a sculpture in a show.

Q:That's very interactive.

YOKO:Yes, interactive. But also sometimes, you know, I'd forget to call, but normally I would. So I do that.
Q:I know you're a longtime supporter of AIDS causes, and the money from this exhibit will go to the Desert AIDS Project. Is there a special reason the cause is so close to your heart?

YOKO:I always make sure that whenever we do a show in any city or town that the owner has to recommend a charity because they know better than me about that.

I've always have a special interest in helping the AIDS people.

Q:Yoko, you seem to always stay so young and trendy...it's almost unbelievable you're going to turn 70 next month. What is your secret?

YOKO:Thank you! Well, I don't know what it is. I was just busy, and didn't have time to think about anything. I wasn't counting my years, let's put it that way. I didn't have the time to. Now they tell me I'm going to be whatever, and I'm surprised. I said, what? Me?

Q:Do you workout a lot, or do you have a special diet, or meditate?

YOKO:I'm always moving my body because I'm always busy. So even in the house I'm active because I'm running from one room to another all the time. And then I take walks a lot. For instance, I live around 72nd Street, and I will go from here to Soho or something. So that kind of thing helps, I think.

Q:I know that you're an inspiration to many people.

YOKO: Well, that's good if I am. I hope that they get something out of it. That's great.

Lemon Lennon - я не поняла, я что, не имею права на свое мнение? И, если вы не в курсе, редакторы Эплока сами решили мой рассказ напечатать... И вообще-то, в данном случае именно вы начали на меня "наезжать"..^0^

А к творчеству Йоко я отношусь достаточно спокойно. В тех случаях, когда это действительно творчество.

mARGO

Мне просто надоели высказывания типа - "Послушайте, сколько можно? Только совсем недавно мы эту ненормальную
обсуждали в другой теме "Й.О. как творческая единица".

Марго здесь не причем, это я высказался. Разве я что-то не то сказал? Одни повоторяющиеся темы закрываются, а другие культивируются. Очень странно! При всем моем уважении к мнению других участников, хочу напомнить, что Й.О. не была членом ансамбля Битлз, хотя, кажется, намеревалась стать. Я всю свою сознательную жизнь люблю Битлз, но меня никто не может заставить испытывать хотя бы малейшее почтение к вою и верещанию этой, так называемой, "творческой единицы". Кроме того, что она сыграла трагическую роль в судьбе Джона Леннона (ИМХО), ее "творчество" (во всех своих проявлениях) оскорбляет мой эстетический вкус.

С глубоким уважением. Мунлайт.